It's also dumb to think that Hooker is going to be better than Goff. Maybe not you specifically (but it kind of sounds like you might lean that way) but a lot of smooth brains of this fanbase. Not sure what you will see out of Hooker other than pre-season or if Goff get injured.
I don't think Hooker is better than Goff, but he might be in 2 years. But Hooker doesn't have to be as good as Goff when his cap hit is 6% of what Goff's is. And you're right, it's difficult to really know what you have in Hooker until you see him live in games that actually count. But you have to think after this season the staff should at least have an idea of whether the potential is there. That's why I don't understand why they can't wait another year since, ya know, Goff is still under contract for another year anyway.
Is it possible the Lions don't re-sign Goff this off-season to get a full look at Hooker next year? You still have him under contract for another year and can always franchise....
That's exactly what I've been saying they should do (look at my post above from 1/17). badnews3123 seems to think it wouldn't be a good look for the franchise. Not sure I agree with that, but I also do think they end up extending him. I just hope the extension gives them an easy out in 2 years. They do need to find out of Hooker is the QB of the future though. You spent a 3rd round pick on a 25 year old that couldn't play his rookie year...it would be dumb to give Goff a new deal without knowing what you have in Hooker.
I think it’s a tough look from the outside and it would be a tough look in that locker room, too to have Goff go into the season without an extension. The team just went to the NFC Championship and the loss was definitely not on his shoulders. I’ve been hard on Goff over the past couple years and he has some limitations that still frustrate me, but he’s clearly good enough for this team to be a contender with.
Short of him trying to reset the QB market with his new deal, I think giving him an extension is an easy decision. And if you do a 3-4 year deal, with structure it still gives you time to evaluate Hooker and still have a window to make a decision. His age doesn’t concern me that much, especially at a position that you barely get touched.
I don't think it's an issue at all if Goff is not extended this season.
The Lions were a couple plays away from going to the superbowl.
You spend the money and extend ARSB, and get another bookend DE opposite of Hutch, bolster both lines and secondary and make a run. If Goff executes again at a high level get gets a really nice extension.
One thing about Goff I really like is he really seems to be mentally a strong person and a team guy. He wants to be here, se want him here. And I know he has a good relationship with Holmes so I don't think any of this is an issue.
He wants to win! And he is different than Stafford that hurt us with his contracts.
Post by goldenlions on Mar 2, 2024 10:55:35 GMT -6
I think it comes down to either extend him at 40-45 AAV this year or gamble on another year and if he performs well again, you are looking at 50+ AAV or the franchise tag.
Either way extending him now would help with the cap, but they don't seem to be a group that is just going to spend, spend, spend on FA like other teams in their position. SO who knows really.
All I want is a smart deal. I think we can count on Brad for that, but I want it to be smart enough that, in a given situation, the Lions are not in a tough spot to make a change.
As for the argument about whether Hooker is or can be any good, the only way we'll know at this point is if Goff misses any significant amount of time. And that is the given situation that I mentioned above.
The tell tale sign, in that case, will be that Ben doesn't need to make any adjustments to his play calling, BUT Hooker starts connecting on passes beyond 25 yards.
I really do like Goff, but I'm still chomping at the bit. There's so much offensive firepower on this roster, they should be capable of absolutely frustrating defenses and scoring on 3-5 play drives with regularity. Goff just isn't comfortable with those kinds of throws. We've seen him do it, on occasion, and I'm not going to say he should do it more often, if he's just not comfortable with it. But it is a weakness in his game that stifles the offensive production of his receivers; namely JMo.
The Lions need to spend a lot of money this offseason...i mean lots and lots and lots of money. The Fords are probably puckering a little in this current economy.
I don't blame them for waiting on Goff.
Goff is a true pro and it does suck but sure they had some internal discussions about it.
i could actually seeing them trade Hooker before he even plays in a game. if the extend Goff and ont think Hooker can be a number 1 then they could trade him for a draft pick and start looking for goffs replacement again.
The Lions need to spend a lot of money this offseason...i mean lots and lots and lots of money. The Fords are probably puckering a little in this current economy.
This could be the reason season tickets went up so much this year (mine personally went up $1500 for 2 season tickets). Now they have more cash to help with these signing bonuses.
For Goff to be the right answer they can not let the O line get bad and Ben Johnson needs to stay. Goff is Not a put a team on his back kind of guy. The real question is do you want to pay him like a top 5 guy when he is a top 12 guy. Lot of guys could win with that good run game behind that good O line with Ben Johnson. I have always been a person that says you do not replace a QB unless you think you have something better. If Hooker is better and he did get to sit a year they should be on the phone right now getting a 1st for next year and every pick a team like the Broncos or Raiders have left this year. The real problem is you have turned Goff into the 2nd coming of Christ in Detroit and for the fans who has not seen a playoff win in 30 years. If you are wrong your time in Detroit will be over very very fast.
For Goff to be the right answer they can not let the O line get bad and Ben Johnson needs to stay. Goff is Not a put a team on his back kind of guy. The real question is do you want to pay him like a top 5 guy when he is a top 12 guy. Lot of guys could win with that good run game behind that good O line with Ben Johnson. I have always been a person that says you do not replace a QB unless you think you have something better. If Hooker is better and he did get to sit a year they should be on the phone right now getting a 1st for next year and every pick a team like the Broncos or Raiders have left this year. The real problem is you have turned Goff into the 2nd coming of Christ in Detroit and for the fans who has not seen a playoff win in 30 years. If you are wrong your time in Detroit will be over very very fast.
In almost every statistical passing category he is in the top 5 during the 2023 season. Also, Goff played outstanding throughout the playoffs. The loss to SF was not Goffs' fault, he delivered the ball on target almost every time.
For Goff to be the right answer they can not let the O line get bad and Ben Johnson needs to stay. Goff is Not a put a team on his back kind of guy. The real question is do you want to pay him like a top 5 guy when he is a top 12 guy. Lot of guys could win with that good run game behind that good O line with Ben Johnson. I have always been a person that says you do not replace a QB unless you think you have something better. If Hooker is better and he did get to sit a year they should be on the phone right now getting a 1st for next year and every pick a team like the Broncos or Raiders have left this year. The real problem is you have turned Goff into the 2nd coming of Christ in Detroit and for the fans who has not seen a playoff win in 30 years. If you are wrong your time in Detroit will be over very very fast.
In almost every statistical passing category he is in the top 5 during the 2023 season. Also, Goff played outstanding throughout the playoffs. The loss to SF was not Goffs' fault, he delivered the ball on target almost every time.
Goff has definitely exceeded my expectations and the SF loss was not his fault, but Strongbad is right that he is not a "carry the team on his back" guy and if everything isn't perfectly in place for him he is hard to watch. I think a lot of QBs that we view as pretty mid right now would excel on the Lions behind that line, with the running game and Ben Johnson's scheme. So sure, you can probably win a Super Bowl with Goff if everything is perfectly in place, but do you want to pay a QB like that $50M/year?
Nithier was Matt Stafford in Detroit, but he managed to win a superbowl.
There are only so many Brady's or Mahomes.
Goff is the most gamer mofo we ever had in this city under center. I am not saying to pay him 50 mill, let's see what he does this season and go from there.
Post by badnews3123 on Apr 28, 2024 7:21:11 GMT -6
The whole $50 million thing is overblown. That’s for press releases, we saw it this week with Browns deal. Jalen Hurts got $51 million and doesn’t have a cap hit that hits $30 million until 2026 and after a 41 million hit in ‘27, they can get extend or get out of the deal. If you have a good cap guy, which Lions seem to have in Disner and Sousa, you can always work these things out.
For me I think Goff Deal gets done at the end of preseason. Wouldn't it be the most lions thing ever to Sign Goff for like 4 years at 180 million with 100 guaranteed (see cousins deal) and then have their backup come out and be 35/40 8 TD's 2 Rushing TD's and 120 yards in limited action in preseason? I'm not saying Hooker is good, but could you imagine that problem? you probably think "oh a great problem to have" no no it's not having a 45MIL/year QB locked in for 5 years and a star behind him would suck. Go through training camp, see what a healthy Hooker can do, and then sign Goff. it's a long shot, but you gain literally nothing by signing him today vs three or four months from now.
For me I think Goff Deal gets done at the end of preseason. Wouldn't it be the most lions thing ever to Sign Goff for like 4 years at 180 million with 100 guaranteed (see cousins deal) and then have their backup come out and be 35/40 8 TD's 2 Rushing TD's and 120 yards in limited action in preseason? I'm not saying Hooker is good, but could you imagine that problem? you probably think "oh a great problem to have" no no it's not having a 45MIL/year QB locked in for 5 years and a star behind him would suck. Go through training camp, see what a healthy Hooker can do, and then sign Goff. it's a long shot, but you gain literally nothing by signing him today vs three or four months from now.
that's kinda how I feel they are doing it...you haven't really gotten a look at hooker yet, so get that look and then decide. Could also provide a little leverage.
Post by Blaming Brad on Apr 30, 2024 19:53:43 GMT -6
If they could structure it in a way with an easy out after 2025, I suppose I could live with it. But if Hooker is at least serviceable, imagine what you could build around him and his 3rd round rookie contract the next 3 years. Would also give you much more freedom to keep guys like McNeill, Decker, Hutch, Iffy going forward. If you roll with Goff through 2025, Hooker will be 28 years old and on the last year of his rookie deal when it's time for him to start.
Obviously still a big risk with that if Hooker turns out to be a bum, but I'd like to think the coaching staff should at least have an idea about Hooker based on practice, preseason, etc at some point this season.
No starting/franchise type of QB is getting a contract extension with an out after 2 years (maybe if he was 35 or older, and that's a maybe) so you will have to live with disappointment.
I heard someone say that Hooker doesn't look as good to them as they thought, could just have been pre-draft fodder, I guess we will see in preseason.
Last Edit: May 1, 2024 5:35:58 GMT -6 by goldenlions
You can also still build and maintain a roster even while paying Goff if you’re smart. Philly has been able to keep their key guys and still be fairly active in FA. KC moved on from both Hill and Sneed, but neither was a case of they couldn’t pay them, more they just didn’t want to. They’ve given Jones and Kelce big contracts and given out huge contracts to guys like Thuney, Taylor, and Reid. In all honesty, the teams that have had the rookie QB deals have seemed to overextend themselves because they’re spending big in FA and by the time they pay the QB they’re tied to those guys and those top end FA deals can be dangerous. I’d think Lions front office has shown to be smarter than that, but I also think they’d be smart enough to be able to build and maintain while extending Goff.
Tough to use Chiefs as an example given Mahomes is the greatest QB of all time still in his prime and what's around him doesn't seem to matter.
Was talking less about success and more about contracts. They still paid Kelce and Chris Jones big money. They still gave monster deals to Taylor and Thuney in FA. Paid Justin Reid well, too. Hasn’t hindered them from handing out big contracts to their guys and free agents.
I heard someone say that Hooker doesn't look as good to them as they thought, could just have been pre-draft fodder, I guess we will see in preseason.
Where did you hear that? I'd be curious about that.
One of the talking heads on 97.1, not sure which one. Might have been Valenti just stirring shit up for all I know.
I don't trust Hooker to be anything since I haven't seen him play and would rather roll with what got us to the NFC championship game and 30 minutes from the SB for the next 3-4 years. If Hooker comes out guns blazing in preseason, then we might have to have another conversation. I think going through OTAs and if they immediately sign Goff to an extension, that might tell you something about Hooker.