Michigan Lockdown...

[def]

Gov Wretched Gretchen is killing people. That's my opinion after Big Gretch put covid patients into nursing homes, a decision that defied logic, seeing the demo it hit. That said I left for Florida two weeks ago. I'm sure some restaurant owners on here, most notably Tech, is hurting and I have others, some family that own small places and they are getting hurt. Its bs. Anyways, here, it's normal life and I might have a beer in a minute. Jimmy Buffett jr and some friends in the area, no lockdowna...

[TechLion]

I own three restaurants and I have no problem making a short term sacrifice in order to save lives. If we never did a thing in this country we would have 3 million dead. The only reason we are shut down is because of restaurants owned by Trump supporters. They were not following the rules and spreading the virus like crazy. If it wasn't for you evil immoral redneck dumbfucks we would be open like we were in the summer.

[huntermsu]

I think the government is going to be responsible for a lot of suffering and death due to the economic burden they are putting on people by shutting down businesses, statistically speaking knocking tens of millions of people into poverty could be easily lead to hundreds of thousands of deaths so let not act like this is money vs. peoples lives the two are very much connected.

I do understand governors reasoning behind issuing these lockdowns from a political stand point they want to be seen as taking action and "saving lives", I have no doubt that for instance had Whitmer not be a proponent of lockdowns that a future political opponent would try to claim she "killed people", hell Tech does it in this thread with Trump despite the fact he doesn't have the same power that governors have, but as I said before I would debate how many people are going to die from the poverty created by these lockdowns but those deaths are not as likely to be used as a political cudgel so it is ignored for political expediency.

And yes I would be irate if my business were shut down by the government and I question the legality of it, especially with no clear end in sight remember H1N1 never went away we still get it and people still die from it but our immune systems have caught up to it so the mortality has gone down unless someone has some evidence otherwise I have to think Covid will be the same, vaccines are interesting and all but for how long will they work? It's essentially a flu and those vaccines are not able eradicate the flu because of all of the variants.

[TechLion]

The economy would be suffering with or without a government lockdown. The best way to improve the economy is to reduce the spread of the virus. If hospital beds fill, we will shut down! This is something Trump supporting morons don't understand. The governor of Michigan is not in control of the lockdown. She is giving her recommendations based on science to health departments around the state. I certainly don't agree with everything they have done but if we had a president that brought people together instead of pitting them against each other, we would be in a far better situation today. Every other country around the world did a better job than the US. That is because of Trump and his redneck piece of shit followers.

[huntermsu]

Dec 3, 2020 9:08:56 GMT -6 TechLion said:

The economy would be suffering with or without a government lockdown. The best way to improve the economy is to reduce the spread of the virus. If hospital beds fill, we will shut down! This is something Trump supporting morons don't understand. The governor of Michigan is not in control of the lockdown. She is giving her recommendations based on science to health departments around the state. I certainly don't agree with everything they have done but if we had a president that brought people together instead of pitting them against each other, we would be in a far better situation today. Every other country around the world did a better job than the US. That is because of Trump and his redneck piece of shit followers.

Irresponsible people are a problem (i personally have an employee that is a good example) but I think the U.S. struggles are more attributable to globalism and the U.S. being such a free and mobile society vs. the other countries of the world.

And one thing I think has been overlooked is the performance of hospital administration (not personnel) in not being able to expand capacity while they had severely limited "elective" procedures and also I'll be blunt I think they have committed wide spread fraud (which they are certainly good at).

The finish line is a long way away and we don't even know what it is at this point, low income people have had their livelihoods destroyed by government order and aside from short term good feelings on perceived lives "saved" I think long term the repercussions could be more deadly.

[goldenlions]

Dec 3, 2020 15:17:56 GMT -6 huntermsu said:

And one thing I think has been overlooked is the performance of hospital administration (not personnel) in not being able to expand capacity while they had severely limited "elective" procedures and also I'll be blunt I think they have committed wide spread fraud (which they are certainly good at).

Wow...you must have a personal vendetta against a healthcare organization to believe that nonsense.

[huntermsu]

Dec 3, 2020 23:23:15 GMT -6 goldenlions said:

Dec 3, 2020 15:17:56 GMT -6 huntermsu said:

And one thing I think has been overlooked is the performance of hospital administration (not personnel) in not being able to expand capacity while they had severely limited "elective" procedures and also I'll be blunt I think they have committed wide spread fraud (which they are certainly good at).

Wow...you must have a personal vendetta against a healthcare organization to believe that nonsense.

I've known medical billers, I know you are in the medical field tell me there isn't rampant waste and fraud in these systems.

I also find it hard to believe that whole wings of hospitals were shut down because of limiting elective procedures but yet they couldn't repurpose those spaces and personnel resulting in laying off staff and empty floor space. 

[goldenlions]

Dec 4, 2020 10:36:58 GMT -6 huntermsu said:

I've known medical billers, I know you are in the medical field tell me there isn't rampant waste and fraud in these systems.

Not sure what this fraud is that you speak about. The only "fraud" is from insurance companies and patient's looking for some miracle cure or a cheap high. I don't know how healthcare is run in your state, but it is pretty well managed here. We are constantly coming up with cost savings every year.

Dec 4, 2020 10:36:58 GMT -6 huntermsu said:

I also find it hard to believe that whole wings of hospitals were shut down because of limiting elective procedures but yet they couldn't repurpose those spaces and personnel resulting in laying off staff and empty floor space. 

I am pretty sure a lot of places did this. But if you look at the spikes, they were down a lot by mid May and just flattened out for most of the summer until recently. The cost of maintaining this didn't make sense. And I think a lot was learned on how to treat these patients over time. That if we knew them in March, might have helped more people. I don't think anyone where I work was laid off, but people were asked to either take furloughs or reduced hours and it all depended on what you did. People were even offered to relocate to another area that needed help. I can't speak to what happened at other places, as we were not overrun with cases like New York, Seattle, even Michigan. Although we have more cases now than we ever did the 6-7 months prior, but I think we have a good handle on what is needed.

To sum up, I think you just have misdirected anger.

[def]

Dec 5, 2020 0:58:19 GMT -6 goldenlions said:

Dec 4, 2020 10:36:58 GMT -6 huntermsu said:

I've known medical billers, I know you are in the medical field tell me there isn't rampant waste and fraud in these systems.

Not sure what this fraud is that you speak about. The only "fraud" is from insurance companies and patient's looking for some miracle cure or a cheap high. I don't know how healthcare is run in your state, but it is pretty well managed here. We are constantly coming up with cost savings every year.

Dec 4, 2020 10:36:58 GMT -6 huntermsu said:

I also find it hard to believe that whole wings of hospitals were shut down because of limiting elective procedures but yet they couldn't repurpose those spaces and personnel resulting in laying off staff and empty floor space. 

I am pretty sure a lot of places did this. But if you look at the spikes, they were down a lot by mid May and just flattened out for most of the summer until recently. The cost of maintaining this didn't make sense. And I think a lot was learned on how to treat these patients over time. That if we knew them in March, might have helped more people. I don't think anyone where I work was laid off, but people were asked to either take furloughs or reduced hours and it all depended on what you did. People were even offered to relocate to another area that needed help. I can't speak to what happened at other places, as we were not overrun with cases like New York, Seattle, even Michigan. Although we have more cases now than we ever did the 6-7 months prior, but I think we have a good handle on what is needed.

To sum up, I think you just have misdirected anger.

Hey look at that...another two week extended lockdown by dictator whitmer, just long enough to stall the election fraud cases.