Is Ben Johnson overrated?

[Blaming Brad]

Just throwing it out there. Not saying I believe it, but I've been seeing some things the last few weeks including the offense seems predictable at times.

Also, your 2 biggest playmakers on offense are arguably Gibbs and Jameson. They received a total of 11 touches combined. They spent a 12th overall pick on each of these guys - why aren't they more involved? Perhaps there are deeper issues with Jamo, but I don't understand why they don't have a handful of plays every game designed just to get the ball in Jamo's hands in space. He had ONE target in this game and the run.

[Felix]

Dec 4, 2023 12:44:39 GMT -6 Blaming Brad said:

Just throwing it out there. Not saying I believe it, but I've been seeing some things the last few weeks including the offense seems predictable at times.

Also, your 2 biggest playmakers on offense are arguably Gibbs and Jameson. They received a total of 11 touches combined. They spent a 12th overall pick on each of these guys - why aren't they more involved? Perhaps there are deeper issues with Jamo, but I don't understand why they don't have a handful of plays every game designed just to get the ball in Jamo's hands in space. He had ONE target in this game and the run.

I'm probably wrong and I'm just trying to convince myself...but I feel like he/they are holding back...feel like there's a whole other gear, but they don't want to put it on tape yet...I know, unlikely, but that's what it feels like to me

[badnews3123]

No, but he’s human and really only a few weeks off calling maybe the best game he’s called since he’s been the OC. He’s one of the best at play design I’ve ever seen, the way he layers routes and sets things up with a play early to play off it later in a game or even the season. Just think sometimes he gets a little too stuck on the script and too cute at times.

[rustyhilger]

Let's see.

#2 rated offense in the NFL. #3 offense his rookie season calling plays.

Their top receiving threats are a fifth-round draft pick and two free agents who's former teams basically threw to the curb. And a QB who's former team just "threw him in" as an afterthought along with 2 first-round picks, just for the opportunity to dump him.

Yep, he definitely sucks.

[goldenlions]

I don't mind under working 2 guys who are basically rookies (one actual and one in games only) as long as they continue to win. Force feeding players never works out well.

And if Ben Johnson gets a head coaching gig in the off season (I don't buy that will happen) then I don't think he is overrated.

[Strongbad]

I think what Johnson has done with only one quality WR and Goff has been impressive. The Lions will not win a Superbowl or even go on a deep Playoff run without an upgrade at QB or at very least one more very good outside WR that scares folks and can make plays. Williams has not take up the roll yet and if he did it would really change the O. Goff for all he does well he is not a guy who can put the team on his back against top 10 D and force the team to win. Goff is a good system manager and a good QB in a good system. If you are going to win a SB with him you best have a top 5 D to help him. And even then he lost the superbowl when given the chance.

[Blaming Brad]

Dec 4, 2023 21:15:14 GMT -6 rustyhilger said:

Their top receiving threats are a fifth-round draft pick and two free agents who's former teams basically threw to the curb.

Again I don't necessarily think he's overrated, but this is a pretty weak case in his defense. I assume the fifth round draft pick you're referring to is St. Brown (who was actually a 4th rounder). I think Amon-Ra has proven he's not a "4th round level" player. Should we discredit all of Tom Brady's Super Bowls because he was a 6th rounder? I think you're also discounting the fact that they have a top 3 o-line with 4 pro bowl level players when healthy, and even the fifth guy has been playing at a high level when called upon. That's without mentioning Gibbs, Jamo and LaPorta who are potential gamechangers.

Point taken on Goff though. What he's done with Goff alone is probably worthy of a head gig.

[Blaming Brad]

Dec 5, 2023 0:33:38 GMT -6 goldenlions said:

And if Ben Johnson gets a head coaching gig in the off season (I don't buy that will happen) then I don't think he is overrated.

Unworthy coordinators get head coaching gigs all the time.

[Vic]

The offense is probably good enough to win, the defense on the other hand...

[goldenlions]

Dec 5, 2023 13:15:53 GMT -6 Blaming Brad said:

Unworthy coordinators get head coaching gigs all the time.

even unworthy position coaches....

[def]

Goff scoffs under pressure but I think if they start getting the rock to JAMO more it'd be huge and just in time. Jamo is that guy if he gets touches and he's fired the f up

We got all the weapons on O

[rustyhilger]

Dec 7, 2023 20:22:30 GMT -6 def said:

Goff scoffs under pressure but I think if they start getting the rock to JAMO more it'd be huge and just in time. Jamo is that guy if he gets touches and he's fired the f up

We got all the weapons on O

I give the guy a pass (no pun intended) because he's such a willing blocker.  But has he even had an NFL game where he's caught more than 2 passes? He needs to start kicking things up to another level. I hope this isn't what Holmes traded up for.

[Blaming Brad]

Dec 8, 2023 8:01:12 GMT -6 rustyhilger said:

Dec 7, 2023 20:22:30 GMT -6 def said:

Goff scoffs under pressure but I think if they start getting the rock to JAMO more it'd be huge and just in time. Jamo is that guy if he gets touches and he's fired the f up

We got all the weapons on O

I give the guy a pass (no pun intended) because he's such a willing blocker.  But has he even had an NFL game where he's caught more than 2 passes? He needs to start kicking things up to another level. I hope this isn't what Holmes traded up for.

The fact that he hasn't been more involved in the passing game is concerning. I mean, I think we're past "he's still learning the playbook". And we've seen his speed on display with his blocks and that TD run last week so it doesn't look like the knee is holding him back (at least speed-wise). Why aren't they taking at least 2 shots downfield with him per game?

[Vic]

Dec 8, 2023 8:53:27 GMT -6 Blaming Brad said:

Dec 8, 2023 8:01:12 GMT -6 rustyhilger said:

I give the guy a pass (no pun intended) because he's such a willing blocker.  But has he even had an NFL game where he's caught more than 2 passes? He needs to start kicking things up to another level. I hope this isn't what Holmes traded up for.

The fact that he hasn't been more involved in the passing game is concerning. I mean, I think we're past "he's still learning the playbook". And we've seen his speed on display with his blocks and that TD run last week so it doesn't look like the knee is holding him back (at least speed-wise). Why aren't they taking at least 2 shots downfield with him per game?

Ww have seen a steady progression with him in a very positive manner.

It could also be Goff not throwing it downfield or the OL giving up too much pressure or perceived pressure. Honestly we don't sit there and chart every play to see how many deep routes he runs per game.

The offense takes shots when the run game is working, thay hasn't been the case last few weeks. The offense has been struggling a bit. They are just trying to get first downs.

[Blaming Brad]

Dec 8, 2023 9:17:49 GMT -6 Vic said:

Ww have seen a steady progression with him in a very positive manner.

He played less snaps last week (total number and percentage wise) than he did the previous 2 weeks and was targeted 1 time with 1 touch.

[badnews3123]

Dec 8, 2023 9:17:49 GMT -6 Vic said:

Dec 8, 2023 8:53:27 GMT -6 Blaming Brad said:

The fact that he hasn't been more involved in the passing game is concerning. I mean, I think we're past "he's still learning the playbook". And we've seen his speed on display with his blocks and that TD run last week so it doesn't look like the knee is holding him back (at least speed-wise). Why aren't they taking at least 2 shots downfield with him per game?

Ww have seen a steady progression with him in a very positive manner.

It could also be Goff not throwing it downfield or the OL giving up too much pressure or perceived pressure. Honestly we don't sit there and chart every play to see how many deep routes he runs per game.

The offense takes shots when the run game is working, thay hasn't been the case last few weeks. The offense has been struggling a bit. They are just trying to get first downs.

The Lions are averaging almost a 150 yards rushing a game over the last 4 games. They struggled a bit when Ragnow went out, but they’ve still run the ball effectively. So that’s not the reason for not pushing the ball downfield. And it’s not just Williams, they just don’t seem to be looking to attack in the passing game.

I think it’s just the offensive philosophy. They’re trying to get themselves into 3rd and manageable so that it opens up options and it leaves the option of going for it on 4th. Which I don’t think is bad, I just think sometimes they get a little too married to it and sometimes late to adjust.

[Blaming Brad]

Dec 8, 2023 12:29:32 GMT -6 badnews3123 said:

I think it’s just the offensive philosophy. They’re trying to get themselves into 3rd and manageable so that it opens up options and it leaves the option of going for it on 4th. Which I don’t think is bad, I just think sometimes they get a little too married to it and sometimes late to adjust.

If that is the philosophy it seems weird to draft a guy like Jamo #12 overall (let alone trade up for him). Do they not trust Goff to go downfield? Does Goff not trust himself?

With that said though, I don't see Jamo as necessarily just a straight line down field outrun the entire defense guy. I remember at Alabama they would get him in space in the middle of the field a lot and he would use his speed after the catch.

[Felix]

Dec 8, 2023 14:06:23 GMT -6 Blaming Brad said:

Dec 8, 2023 12:29:32 GMT -6 badnews3123 said:

I think it’s just the offensive philosophy. They’re trying to get themselves into 3rd and manageable so that it opens up options and it leaves the option of going for it on 4th. Which I don’t think is bad, I just think sometimes they get a little too married to it and sometimes late to adjust.

If that is the philosophy it seems weird to draft a guy like Jamo #12 overall (let alone trade up for him). Do they not trust Goff to go downfield? Does Goff not trust himself?

With that said though, I don't see Jamo as necessarily just a straight line down field outrun the entire defense guy. I remember at Alabama they would get him in space in the middle of the field a lot and he would use his speed after the catch.

I'm telling you...it may be wrong, but I feel they are purposefully not putting stuff on tape right now

[Blaming Brad]

Dec 8, 2023 14:41:00 GMT -6 Felix said:

Dec 8, 2023 14:06:23 GMT -6 Blaming Brad said:

If that is the philosophy it seems weird to draft a guy like Jamo #12 overall (let alone trade up for him). Do they not trust Goff to go downfield? Does Goff not trust himself?

With that said though, I don't see Jamo as necessarily just a straight line down field outrun the entire defense guy. I remember at Alabama they would get him in space in the middle of the field a lot and he would use his speed after the catch.

I'm telling you...it may be wrong, but I feel they are purposefully not putting stuff on tape right now

I get what you're saying, but that would seem a little irresponsible to me. I mean, with 3 division games left, another game at Dallas, and another against the surging Broncos, there is nothing locked in at this point. There is definitely a world where the Lions open the playoffs as a wild card on the road. They need to be doing everything possible to win now, especially with the injuries piling up.

[goldenlions]

I will just accept that they know what they are doing and letting their main playmakers (Monty and St. Brown) run the offense. And not force feed Jamo just because of draft position. ARSB is the bell cow kind of guy at WR. Jamo seems more like that guy who can eventually turn into a 3 for 150 kind of guy. Jamo still has only played in a total of 14 games, basically still in his rookie season.

[rustyhilger]

Dec 9, 2023 4:38:02 GMT -6 goldenlions said:

ARSB is the bell cow kind of guy at WR. 

Not to mention you have LaPorta, the TE Bellcow.

Which just goes to illustrate. LaPorta was drafted very high for a TE, and with that came expectations. He recognized this, and has far surpassed them the second he stepped on the field. St. Brown far surpassed his beyond wildest dreams. You can't say any of that for Jamo. He's been progressing at the rate you'd expect a late-round prospect to progress. 

He was supposed to have a higher floor than this. "Reliable target" would have been a reasonable year-2 floor, which is looking more and more like a year-2 ceiling, if not "wishful thinking." Even James Mitchell and Brock Wright have met that basic floor, and they're JAGs.

[Felix]

As I said before...im writing Jamo off as a bust (based on resources given up to acquire him)...if he ends up not being a bust, cool...this O has shown it can operate without him, so if he ends up not being a bust all the better, but he isn't looking to live up to his draft position yet...if this were a qb (looking at you Zac wilson), he would be going down in flames with all the negative talk...but he's not a qb, so no biggie

[Blaming Brad]

Dec 9, 2023 15:05:33 GMT -6 Felix said:

As I said before...im writing Jamo off as a bust (based on resources given up to acquire him)...if he ends up not being a bust, cool...this O has shown it can operate without him, so if he ends up not being a bust all the better, but he isn't looking to live up to his draft position yet...if this were a qb (looking at you Zac wilson), he would be going down in flames with all the negative talk...but he's not a qb, so no biggie

The one consolation with Jamo and that draft at least as of now is it's looking like the first round of that draft after #12 was not that strong. Some guys like Hamilton or McDuffie or Tyler Smith look like they will be good but no Aaron Donald level world beaters that they missed out on. Of course that could change.

[Vic]

Little chilly today, need to see how the ball comes out of Goff's hands in Chicago.

[stuckincheeseland]

dropped passes are not helping