Post by badnews3123 on Jun 27, 2022 11:39:52 GMT -6
However you feel about the rest of the roster, there’s cloud hanging over the team. What’s gonna happen at QB after this year? I’d say most of us expect the them to be looking aggressively for a replacement for Goff, but what’s everyone’s line for holding on to him? I think there’s an obvious answer, playoffs, barring some amazing defensive turnaround, you can’t move on. It’s probably hard to put a statistical or win total number to it, but it’s a tough spot and I’m not sure if people have a bar higher or lower than playoffs.
My biggest fear is where I expect them to likely be and that’s not a bottom of the pack team, but also not good enough to be in the spot to get a top prospect without having to give up resources. I think Goff was in a tough spot in first half of the year, but I also think the 2nd half was a littler overrated and not as good as the stats look. There’s obviously some gray area, but I’m probably playoffs or bust.
Yeah, I have nothing to contribute. Just that I agree with the other two. It's not necessarily playoffs or bust for me. Just put the team in a winning spot when possible, and keeps games close when possible. If they get to the playoffs that's cool too though.
Post by goldenlions on Jun 27, 2022 23:43:51 GMT -6
Playing a lot of rebuilding teams and teams with first year head coach/regime changes might inflate the Lions win total. This seems to be a cohesive unit with some talent on both sides of the ball. Unless Goff takes a poop on the field, I am thinking he wins enough games to keep around and leave the Lions in a predicament to either keep him at a high salary cap % as I don't see them kicking the can down the road with a rebuilding team. If he looks average to below, then they will be in a position to grab one of the top passer next draft.
Let's face it, injuries to key players killed this team last year while cutting dead weight and trying to bring a lot of inexperience into the fold. I don't know of another team last year that lost as many top players as the Lions did.
Post by Blaming Brad on Jun 28, 2022 12:33:46 GMT -6
I feel like Holmes has an unhealthy love for Goff. Not sure Campbell feels that way though. I think their desire to get a new QB will hinge on what's available. And leave it to the Lions to always time even their losing wrong so they'll win just enough games to not be able to get Stroud or Young.
Post by snowpiercer on Jun 28, 2022 13:30:20 GMT -6
The Jared Goff that had the Todd Gurley running game was a playoff QB. If the Lions can provide that sort of Running game, I think Goff or for that matter any Decent QB would prosper. Of Course, the OL is also key. I don't see this team making the playoffs. A lot of "If's". The Wr's, the Defense....maybe if the football gods keep the injuries to a minimum and everything clicks. But those are some pretty big if's.
I feel like Holmes has an unhealthy love for Goff. Not sure Campbell feels that way though. I think their desire to get a new QB will hinge on what's available. And leave it to the Lions to always time even their losing wrong so they'll win just enough games to not be able to get Stroud or Young.
Im not so sure its true love...I think Holmes understands psychology and is doing his best to maximize Goffs confidence and talent. I dont think Goff is the type that will rise up to a challenge when you think he is garbage, he is the type that does best when "loved"
Really, I don't think how Goff plays should be the driving force in getting a QB next year in the draft, it should only decide how soon. It's an incredibly deep draft for QB's next year. This year Goff has the luxury of having a rather deep group at WR, an OL that should be all that, an average to above RB group, at least 1 NFL TE and absolutely NO ONE behind him pushing for the job.
I don't think the average fan realizes just how deep the 2023 QB class is. The 2022 QB draft was a testament to how smart NFL teams are becoming, they KNEW that 2023 could yield QB's WELL into that draft that will out play this years class. Anyone been watching the "progress" of Willis so far this year? If you want a "holy shit" moment, watch the OTA footage of him throwing to his left, he can't do it.
An average year has 11 or 12 QB's taken in the draft, even if 4 or 5 go in the first round. There are some guys that are ranked at 10 and beyond right now that teams that are looking should be keeping their eye's on. I would be surprised to see more than 15 or 16 go in this draft, but I do think that there's going to be later talent worth looking at if for no other reason than to upgrade out pathetic backup roster.
Goff will be fine. At this point our position is is "fine" his ceiling? Well, given the dog shit roster he had to play with, an OC that got out coached by a guy who fired him had never done that job before, maybe there's a chance they hit the ground running this year. Maybe we'll actually know what we have once this season gets underway, because anyone who thinks that they already know what we have in Goff is full of shit.
...because anyone who thinks that they already know what we have in Goff is full of shit.
Well, I do think we have seen his ceiling with the Rams...I think we saw his basement in the first 8 games last year...but what is his norm is the question I think....
Well, I do think we have seen his ceiling with the Rams...I think we saw his basement in the first 8 games last year...but what is his norm is the question I think....
Well, then you don't believe in the possibility of him growing.
Well, I do think we have seen his ceiling with the Rams...I think we saw his basement in the first 8 games last year...but what is his norm is the question I think....
Well, then you don't believe in the possibility of him growing.
Not a whole lot...4700 yds, 32 TDs and 12 INTs was his best year in LA...if he was 4500, 30, 15 as his norm, I would absolutely take that....assuming the running game was above average and taking some of those TDs from him...
Well, then you don't believe in the possibility of him growing.
Not a whole lot...4700 yds, 32 TDs and 12 INTs was his best year in LA...if he was 4500, 30, 15 as his norm, I would absolutely take that....assuming the running game was above average and taking some of those TDs from him...
Yeah, that's a fair point. I threw together some of his stats in a dashboard. Not exactly totals like you pointed out, but there's probably not a lot of room for growth. He could have an upgraded WR corps and all, but he would need a lot to hit those numbers.
I put the dashboard image in a link because I didn't know what the rules were regarding embedded images. Don't worry, it's my blog/portfolio.
Post by Blaming Brad on Jun 28, 2022 19:57:19 GMT -6
I tend to think you are what you are after 6 seasons. And it's not like Goff came from a bad situation in LA. Obviously Goff has show he can win with the right pieces around him, but highly unlikely he'll ever get that in Detroit.
Post by rustyhilger on Jun 29, 2022 20:17:17 GMT -6
It sounds like the coaching staff is going all-in on Goff, tailoring the offense to suit his strengths. Even bringing him in on the design of the playbook.
That's a big risk. If they decide to go another direction, they'll need to scrap a good portion of the passing game and start over again for the fourth time in a 3-year span.
Rams never had that level of buy-in, offensively. McVay was constantly tweaking, and kinda' needs a guy under center with enough talent to able to do anything he's asked to do, and adapt to the scheme rather than the other way around.
McVay was constantly tweaking, and kinda' needs a guy under center with enough talent to able to do anything he's asked to do, and adapt to the scheme rather than the other way around.
Didn't he get Goff to a 13-3 record and a Super Bowl (and two pro bowls)?
McVay was constantly tweaking, and kinda' needs a guy under center with enough talent to able to do anything he's asked to do, and adapt to the scheme rather than the other way around.
Didn't he get Goff to a 13-3 record and a Super Bowl (and two pro bowls)?
Yes, but then they became a little predictable, Belichik and others adapted to what they were doing. So McVay continued to tinker and ask more and more of the QB. Until he started asking him to do things that he couldn't reliably do.
So he went and got Stafford, who had the ability to keep extending himself without reaching his limits. Partly because Stafford has played for like 20 different offensive coordinators, so there wasn't a wrinkle or system that he hadn't already seen or practiced at some point of his career.
Goff, by contrast, has really only known the wide zone / West Coast / play-action system the Shanahans ran in Washington and Denver. Which is known for being very QB friendly. But also something that's been around so long, it was inevitable defenses would figure out how to stop it eventually.
Last Edit: Jun 30, 2022 0:52:32 GMT -6 by rustyhilger
Post by badnews3123 on Jun 30, 2022 5:57:33 GMT -6
Goff threw 1 TD/2 INT’s and completed 55% of his passes in the playoffs the year they went to the Super Bowl, I’d say describing it as “getting to the Super Bowl with Goff” is accurate.
Goff has talent, but clearly some limitations, too. McVay is a great offensive mind, but I do also think ego and frustration played a part in the end with Goff. I’d imagine there may have been more he could have done to make it work, but he wanted a QB with less limitations that he wouldn’t have to.