While I don't disagree with some of the sentiment (especially the Gibbs pick which was more of a luxury pick when they had other pieces to fill).
I don't think this is a true statement. I think Gibbs is essential to how they want the O to run. I think Swift was supposed to be that piece, but when he showed he couldn't be counted on, they had to replace his skill set....
I actually think Gibbs looked special even just based on his limited action. Even with that I'm just not sure that was the best use of the pick value wise given their other needs. But the fact that they traded down and got some additional draft capital at least makes it a little easier to swallow. The problem is he pretty much has to be peak Alvin Kamara/Jamaal Charles to make it a good value pick (who were both 3rd round picks in case you were wondering).
See, I'm done thinking like that with this staff. If they think they need xyz piece and can get to/win a sb with those pieces, I'm all in on it. This team seems to emphasize that, team, so if the players are contributing their role, I'm good.
See, I'm done thinking like that with this staff. If they think they need xyz piece and can get to/win a sb with those pieces, I'm all in on it. This team seems to emphasize that, team, so if the players are contributing their role, I'm good.
Williams is the one I'm having trouble with...
Hey, if they get to a Super Bowl and Gibbs is a reason why, I'm happy to eat crow.
Yeah, Williams is harder to swallow because they actually traded up for him and it was at a point where they needed even more pieces than they did in the 2022 draft.
While I don't disagree with some of the sentiment (especially the Gibbs pick which was more of a luxury pick when they had other pieces to fill).
I don't think this is a true statement. I think Gibbs is essential to how they want the O to run. I think Swift was supposed to be that piece, but when he showed he couldn't be counted on, they had to replace his skill set....
williams was a run only option, swift was basically a pass only option so when one was on the field defenses know whether to play the pass or run. Montgomery and Gibbs bot can catch and run so it doesnt give the run or pass call away so easily. that said, i would use Gibbs a lot more and montgomery less. montgomery woul be my goal line option as a runner and spell gibbs for a rest during the game. gibbs has the ability to take it all the way every time he touches the ball. dont limit his touches. i am very happy we got rid of swift. and williams although i really liked him likely rubbed management the wrong way with his stupid TD celebration so they werent sorry to see him go.
Post by rustyhilger on Sept 11, 2023 8:15:22 GMT -6
I don't think it can be overstated that the game is entertainment. And without a vertical threat receiver or a RB who is fun to watch, you're just going to be playing boring football. This is something I sometimes forget while complaining about skill position players picked too high, or selected over bigger needs, etc. Gibbs is good for the game because it's just fun to watch him bouncing and darting around out there.
williams was a run only option, swift was basically a pass only option so when one was on the field defenses know whether to play the pass or run. Montgomery and Gibbs bot can catch and run so it doesnt give the run or pass call away so easily. that said, i would use Gibbs a lot more and montgomery less. montgomery woul be my goal line option as a runner and spell gibbs for a rest during the game. gibbs has the ability to take it all the way every time he touches the ball. dont limit his touches. i am very happy we got rid of swift. and williams although i really liked him likely rubbed management the wrong way with his stupid TD celebration so they werent sorry to see him go.
williams was a run only option, swift was basically a pass only option so when one was on the field defenses know whether to play the pass or run. Montgomery and Gibbs bot can catch and run so it doesnt give the run or pass call away so easily. that said, i would use Gibbs a lot more and montgomery less. montgomery woul be my goal line option as a runner and spell gibbs for a rest during the game. gibbs has the ability to take it all the way every time he touches the ball. dont limit his touches. i am very happy we got rid of swift. and williams although i really liked him likely rubbed management the wrong way with his stupid TD celebration so they werent sorry to see him go.
you know Swift averaged 5 ypc, he ran quite well
yeah, the few times he wasnt "hurt". glad hes gone.
Post by badnews3123 on Sept 11, 2023 18:05:33 GMT -6
Was surprised to see how little Eagles used Swift yesterday. Especially since if you’re gonna get your return on investment with him it’s gonna be early in the season.
Was surprised to see how little Eagles used Swift yesterday. Especially since if you’re gonna get your return on investment with him it’s gonna be early in the season.
The Chiefs not having Chris Jones due to a holdout but he has since signed a one year deal. And that over in Travis Kelce injury also that the Lions seized on that momentum big time!
MJJ had possibly the worst game of his career. Interesting note: that was his first fumble lost EVER. 12 years and over 560 touches. He'll bounce back.
The whole point of having him is the reliability factor, and we weren't able to rely on him at all.
Chark's loss is a net downgrade however you look at it. Our WR core overall is pretty weak.
Chark who didn't play in the opener and is injured again? I don't think we would agree on what kind of downgrade you mean.... the same Chark that played what 10-12 games last year and missed time? Marvin Jones fumble was literally the first time it ever happened in his career (bad luck) he will be better. This is just an emotional stubborn opinion not based on or supported by facts.
This is just an emotional stubborn opinion not based on or supported by facts.
It's not an emotional argument because I could really care less who's playing wideout. Basing it solely on the increased offensive production (and win percentage) the team enjoyed with a viable deep threat versus without. Could care less whether that came from Chark or some rando named Skippy McFlyerston. Zero emotional skin in this game.
Last Edit: Sept 13, 2023 6:13:28 GMT -6 by rustyhilger
This is just an emotional stubborn opinion not based on or supported by facts.
It's not an emotional argument because I could really care less who's playing wideout. Basing it solely on the increased offensive production (and win percentage) the team enjoyed with a viable deep threat versus without. Could care less whether that came from Chark or some rando named Skippy McFlyerston. Zero emotional skin in this game.
I like Chark but I think you're overselling him a bit. He's pretty much a one trick pony, and more importantly has shown his entire career he can't stay healthy. While the offense did seem to struggle more while he was out, I would argue that had a lot more to do with Amon Ra not being healthy during that time (even though he played in all but 1 game). Amon Ra got hurt in week 3, out week 4 and was clearly not completely healthy in weeks 5-6. The offense seemed to get back on track when he got healthy in week 7. Chark came back in week 10, but the winning streak had already begun and Chark wasn't even fully healthy himself until week 12. Leading up to that week the Lions were 3-1 in the previous 4. Chark essentially had 9 games where he was completely out or completely useless.
Post by badnews3123 on Sept 13, 2023 9:39:15 GMT -6
Some of the value of a guy like Chark was that his ability did make defenses have to respect speed and ability deep. The Lions don’t have that guy right now. I’m sure the expectation was from Williams to step into that role, but obviously that hit a speed bump. Reynolds and Marvin don’t have that speed and Raymond definitely has it, but the lack of size changes things.
Just have to more creative with what they do now and keep their fingers crossed after week 6 comes.
Some of the value of a guy like Chark was that his ability did make defenses have to respect speed and ability deep. The Lions don’t have that guy right now. I’m sure the expectation was from Williams to step into that role, but obviously that hit a speed bump. Reynolds and Marvin don’t have that speed and Raymond definitely has it, but the lack of size changes things.
Just have to more creative with what they do now and keep their fingers crossed after week 6 comes.
I'd be surprised if Chark is any faster than Antoine Green at this stage in his career. Not that that's all there is to it, but just saying.
Last Edit: Sept 13, 2023 10:28:58 GMT -6 by Blaming Brad
Some of the value of a guy like Chark was that his ability did make defenses have to respect speed and ability deep. The Lions don’t have that guy right now. I’m sure the expectation was from Williams to step into that role, but obviously that hit a speed bump. Reynolds and Marvin don’t have that speed and Raymond definitely has it, but the lack of size changes things.
Just have to more creative with what they do now and keep their fingers crossed after week 6 comes.
I'd be surprised if Chark is any faster than Antoine Green at this stage in his career. Not that that's all there is to it, but just saying.
Sure, but like you said yourself, there’s more to it. If you just wanted speed, you’d just find some track star and put him out there. Chark isn’t a star, but along with being fast, he’s a pretty good WR when he’s out there.
Yea, and I'm pretty sure we won just about all of them. A bit of a correlation there.
It's not an emotional argument because I could really care less who's playing wideout. Basing it solely on the increased offensive production (and win percentage) the team enjoyed with a viable deep threat versus without. Could care less whether that came from Chark or some rando named Skippy McFlyerston. Zero emotional skin in this game.
I like Chark but I think you're overselling him a bit.
I see where the confusion is. I probably didn't word things very well. I could care less about Chark, but rather his role in the offense.
My thinking is that they may have overestimated what they have and that Marvin Jones, Green, and Jamo might not be the answers. And whether or not they pan out could be the difference between a good offense and a terrorizing offense.
Last Edit: Sept 13, 2023 12:24:54 GMT -6 by rustyhilger
And there's the rub. I'm sure you know what they say about the best ability to have.
Correct, but we were talking about what he offers when he is on the field and why that is valued and why it made a difference for the Lions in the second half.