Post by italianstallion on Feb 24, 2020 10:55:11 GMT -6
Unfortantly Quinn and patricia are gonna go all in on 2020 and hurt this franchise long term
When they should be just trying to suck in 2020. I wouldn't sign anybody more than to a 1 year deal in this free agency
Cut Kennard , If the market for Stafford is their, Trade him , and we know Slay is as a good as gone, i'd say by around mid march .
This team is gonna suck in 2020 regardless iof Stafford and Slay are here or not.
Build for 2021 , and a lot of trade downs and rack up picks in the draft. Everybody on this roster is tradeable , get the most you can get if the deal is good than take it ( Golladay 2 1sts, Ragnow a 1 , Prator a 4 , slay, Stafford etc etvc etc Flowers might not be dealable with that contract)
I have no problem doing what the dolphins did and trade anybody and everybody and rebuild. Until Stafford is gone and this is done, we are the SOL ( Same ole lions )
Lions reached last year with Mike Daniels coming off injuries. Massive fail on that and it really showed on the DL. With Snacks now gone, A'Shawn Robinson probably gone...Got some big holes there. Need to sign at least 3 DT and a DE. Unless that group is totally retooled...game over. DB production suffered greatly with no pass rush to speak of. So if you don't fix the DL..keeping Slay is ridiculous. Trade him to get more chips. I know there are those who would disagree with that..but no pass rush and run stuff means DB's are going to fail. Build that foundation. LB is also a concern. Need at least 2 linebackers who can pass rush. What looked like strength 2 years ago has basically fallen apart and will not be easy or cheap to fix. Biggest problem is there is no real depth on the Defensive side as a whole. Once the starters went down it was game over and season over.
We have 4 DE's under contract. Hand, Okwara, Flowers and Bryant. Hand and Bryant were injured last year, we know what Hand is capable of but next to nothing about Bryant. Okwara had a decent year in 2018 but like the rest of the D he was MIA in 2019. The whole thing about Slay is what kind of "chips" are we talking about? I don't know how you can trade him and expect to compete next year. And while I don't believe for 1 second that this staff is on a 1 year deal, even the Fords are going to have to see some real improvement to make a case to keep them. It's looking more and more likely that Washington is going to get a deal to move down, which means we would get Young. That works for me. I would go DE and DT in the first 2 rounds and go D in the first 3 rounds.
Amendola is back, which means we have 6 WR's under contract I believe. Deep class for WR's so we can sit back, I'm good with waiting until Day 3. OL will be interesting to see in they go FA or the draft OR if they think Beau can be their guy this year. RB got better with Bo who is signed thru this year but we need a Jordan Howard in FA, and we still should use a 5th on a guy like Darrynton Evans or Ke'Shawn Vaughn. I would be very surprised if they made any changes at TE.
The D was a disaster last year, you have to address it with your top resources in FA and the draft. They have the money and the picks to make substantial improvement, let's just hope they have the staff to make improvement.
Unfortantly Quinn and patricia are gonna go all in on 2020 and hurt this franchise long term
When they should be just trying to suck in 2020. I wouldn't sign anybody more than to a 1 year deal in this free agency
Cut Kennard , If the market for Stafford is their, Trade him , and we know Slay is as a good as gone, i'd say by around mid march .
This team is gonna suck in 2020 regardless iof Stafford and Slay are here or not.
Build for 2021 , and a lot of trade downs and rack up picks in the draft. Everybody on this roster is tradeable , get the most you can get if the deal is good than take it ( Golladay 2 1sts, Ragnow a 1 , Prator a 4 , slay, Stafford etc etvc etc Flowers might not be dealable with that contract)
I have no problem doing what the dolphins did and trade anybody and everybody and rebuild. Until Stafford is gone and this is done, we are the SOL ( Same ole lions )
So... there's no way the Lions can get the current roster winning in 1 year, but your plan completely scraps any foundation and can be up and running next year? That doesn't really utilize a great deal of common sense. Can't you just use the picks currently available for your mock draft?
Last Edit: Feb 24, 2020 13:15:07 GMT -6 by bogartin
I asked God for a bike, but God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike, and asked God for forgiveness.
Post by Blaming Brad on Feb 24, 2020 15:55:44 GMT -6
Yeah as someone who thinks this team is going nowhere even I think italianstallion is being a bit extreme. They can still keep the core of more talented players (including Stafford) and still build for the long-term. Yes, Quinntricia needing to win now does complicate matters but there is part of me that thinks that as long as there is at least some improvement, their jobs are safe.
Italianstallion keeps bringing up what Miami did last year and I'm not so sure what the Lions did last year was much different. They were putting guys on IR just for fun. I don't think they had any interest in winning down the stretch.
Lions reached last year with Mike Daniels coming off injuries. Massive fail on that and it really showed on the DL. With Snacks now gone, A'Shawn Robinson probably gone...Got some big holes there. Need to sign at least 3 DT and a DE. Unless that group is totally retooled...game over. DB production suffered greatly with no pass rush to speak of. So if you don't fix the DL..keeping Slay is ridiculous. Trade him to get more chips. I know there are those who would disagree with that..but no pass rush and run stuff means DB's are going to fail. Build that foundation. LB is also a concern. Need at least 2 linebackers who can pass rush. What looked like strength 2 years ago has basically fallen apart and will not be easy or cheap to fix. Biggest problem is there is no real depth on the Defensive side as a whole. Once the starters went down it was game over and season over.
We have 4 DE's under contract. Hand, Okwara, Flowers and Bryant. Hand and Bryant were injured last year, we know what Hand is capable of but next to nothing about Bryant. Okwara had a decent year in 2018 but like the rest of the D he was MIA in 2019. The whole thing about Slay is what kind of "chips" are we talking about? I don't know how you can trade him and expect to compete next year. And while I don't believe for 1 second that this staff is on a 1 year deal, even the Fords are going to have to see some real improvement to make a case to keep them. It's looking more and more likely that Washington is going to get a deal to move down, which means we would get Young. That works for me. I would go DE and DT in the first 2 rounds and go D in the first 3 rounds.
Amendola is back, which means we have 6 WR's under contract I believe. Deep class for WR's so we can sit back, I'm good with waiting until Day 3. OL will be interesting to see in they go FA or the draft OR if they think Beau can be their guy this year. RB got better with Bo who is signed thru this year but we need a Jordan Howard in FA, and we still should use a 5th on a guy like Darrynton Evans or Ke'Shawn Vaughn. I would be very surprised if they made any changes at TE.
The D was a disaster last year, you have to address it with your top resources in FA and the draft. They have the money and the picks to make substantial improvement, let's just hope they have the staff to make improvement.
I think I agree with just about every point you are making. The DL played poorly. This of course made it really tough for the back end. LB group was lacking also. That could also be attributed to poor DL play. Rather than Howard at RB I would go with Kareem Hunt..unless reports are so negative it can't be stomached. He is a much, much better player than Howard. And the DL is the achilles heel. So I would look at another big signing ala the Flowers signing of last year, maybe even 2 DL. The Slay thing is either sign him for huge money or trade him. IMO he gets dinged up a lot..hammies, little things and is a bit vocal, but still an elite db. There is a market for him, I think we cash out now and take our chances with other players. Mike Ford shows "kind of flashes" I won't say flashes of brilliance though. And I say it here,say it now, and will say it forever. I would never pick Okudah with the #3 pick. None of the WR either. If Washington Trades down..It might be for somebody else to pick Young...I could see Washington picking Tua, and maybe trading Haskins. New Coach...Maybe Rivera brings Cam Newton to the Redskins and sits the young Tua for a spell ala Aaron Rodgers. They also have Alex Smith if he can return. I think if Young is gone they (Lions) draft Tua or trade out of the pick and move down to Pick DL and DB/LB...and later in the draft pick some WR/OL...But based on last years collapse of the Defense...that has to be the top priority, especially up front...JMHO
Last Edit: Feb 24, 2020 16:03:43 GMT -6 by Deleted
I'm not so sure what the Lions did last year was much different. They were putting guys on IR just for fun. I don't think they had any interest in winning down the stretch.
And ended up with better draft position.
Last Edit: Feb 24, 2020 17:44:56 GMT -6 by badnews3123
Post by goldenlions on Feb 24, 2020 21:08:02 GMT -6
Anyone buying the rumors that the Fords don't have enough cash to go big in free agency. I don't remember who mentioned it otherwise I would link something here. But one of the reasons they kept Quinn/Patricia is because they on the hook for 3 more seasons with their contracts, they have been dumping contracts after signing them a year prior. And now the Fords don't have the money to give out huge signing bonuses even with the salary cap money. So don't expect them to go big this year.
Anyone buying the rumors that the Fords don't have enough cash to go big in free agency. I don't remember who mentioned it otherwise I would link something here. But one of the reasons they kept Quinn/Patricia is because they on the hook for 3 more seasons with their contracts, they have been dumping contracts after signing them a year prior. And now the Fords don't have the money to give out huge signing bonuses even with the salary cap money. So don't expect them to go big this year.
Anyone buying this?
No...Martha is worth 1.7 B, each one of the children are worth at least a billion each. Then there are the trust funds. Filthy rich. I don't think Martha cares how much she spends. She can afford to spend whatever she wants. I think the franchise makes money. The team is valued at 1.75 B with operating costs of 73 million. The franchise revenue in 2018 was 385 million
Post by goldenlions on Feb 25, 2020 1:10:39 GMT -6
I don't think most owner sink their net worth into their teams. The Lions are one of few teams that actually doesn't make very much money.
This is from 2018
29. Detroit Lions Revenue: $361 million
Operating Income: $4.1 million
Detroit didn’t win a playoff game in 2018 — or the year before that or the year before that. In fact, May 23, 2019, was the 10,000th straight day since the Lions rewarded their fans with a postseason victory. The last time that happened was on Jan. 5, 1992, over the Dallas Cowboys, and the Lions hadn’t won a playoff game before that since 1957. The Lions finished 2018 in a familiar setting — last place in their division. To make matters worse, they hold the distinction of being the only team with single-digit operating income, pulling in a paltry $4.1 million — $20 million less than the second-lowest team.
Just because an owner is filthy rich doesn't mean they will sink their own fortune to help the team stay afloat. Most of that 73 million from 2018 is probably all the extra cap space they have been hoarding the last couple years.
From the same website you showed the revenue, here is the operating income: link
Last Edit: Feb 25, 2020 1:17:19 GMT -6 by goldenlions
Anyone buying the rumors that the Fords don't have enough cash to go big in free agency. I don't remember who mentioned it otherwise I would link something here. But one of the reasons they kept Quinn/Patricia is because they on the hook for 3 more seasons with their contracts, they have been dumping contracts after signing them a year prior. And now the Fords don't have the money to give out huge signing bonuses even with the salary cap money. So don't expect them to go big this year.
Anyone buying this?
Haven't seen/heard a single thing about this. Was it on The Onion?
I don't think most owner sink their net worth into their teams. The Lions are one of few teams that actually doesn't make very much money.
This is from 2018
29. Detroit Lions Revenue: $361 million
Operating Income: $4.1 million
Detroit didn’t win a playoff game in 2018 — or the year before that or the year before that. In fact, May 23, 2019, was the 10,000th straight day since the Lions rewarded their fans with a postseason victory. The last time that happened was on Jan. 5, 1992, over the Dallas Cowboys, and the Lions hadn’t won a playoff game before that since 1957. The Lions finished 2018 in a familiar setting — last place in their division. To make matters worse, they hold the distinction of being the only team with single-digit operating income, pulling in a paltry $4.1 million — $20 million less than the second-lowest team.
Just because an owner is filthy rich doesn't mean they will sink their own fortune to help the team stay afloat. Most of that 73 million from 2018 is probably all the extra cap space they have been hoarding the last couple years.
From the same website you showed the revenue, here is the operating income: link
Odd thing with the Operating income is the Team has Made plus Money every year since Martha took the helm...William Clay Ford died in 2014. Or lets say they have more income to operate with. I think Martha wants to win but she wants the ammo to buy more potent guns. I think I saw a clip where she stated that after watching the "Boy's" run the thing for Decades and losing..it was the girls turn to give it a shot. She kind of shoved junior to the wayside. Lets see, I hope that Quinntricia works out, but the clock is running. This year..if its a patchwork attempt that fails again or a semi rebuild....I look at the defense and see gaping holes, gaping holes. And in fairness, those holes were magnified by losing starters last year. Next man up was usually coming off the street or the practice squad. Maybe an aberration...but I don't feel real warm and fuzzy about it. It can be fixed...lets see if Quinntricia is up to the task.
They could lose money every year but it won't keep up with the increased value of the franchise. They don't come up for sale, which means when that rarity happens they are worth more than people think. In a 2018 Forbes article the Lions were valued at $1.7 Billion. Statista valued them at $2 billion in 2019, so the float is rising $150 million a year. You think they give a rats ass if they get a tax write off or make money on the Lions?
I don't think most owner sink their net worth into their teams. The Lions are one of few teams that actually doesn't make very much money.
This is from 2018
29. Detroit Lions Revenue: $361 million
Operating Income: $4.1 million
Detroit didn’t win a playoff game in 2018 — or the year before that or the year before that. In fact, May 23, 2019, was the 10,000th straight day since the Lions rewarded their fans with a postseason victory. The last time that happened was on Jan. 5, 1992, over the Dallas Cowboys, and the Lions hadn’t won a playoff game before that since 1957. The Lions finished 2018 in a familiar setting — last place in their division. To make matters worse, they hold the distinction of being the only team with single-digit operating income, pulling in a paltry $4.1 million — $20 million less than the second-lowest team.
Just because an owner is filthy rich doesn't mean they will sink their own fortune to help the team stay afloat. Most of that 73 million from 2018 is probably all the extra cap space they have been hoarding the last couple years.
From the same website you showed the revenue, here is the operating income: link
I said this before
The Lions amount to about 1% of the Fords total net worth if you look at all the business assets from Ford Motor CO, Ford Motor Credit, Henry Ford Medical system, property assets etc.
While we use website, social media, face book to promote ourselves, the Fords have a football franchise to sell their cars. Other owners will do whatever it takes to win, to them the football team in their main asset, to the Fords this is just funny money.
Owners are just fans with more money than God. Other owners (with winning teams) don't do anything different than what the Lions owners do other they have gotten lucky to hire the right people who made the team successful.
Owners have very little to do with the success of the team. Don't kid yourself.
Haven't seen/heard a single thing about this. Was it on The Onion?
I just saw it again, it was actually Matt Dery who is saying this, claiming he has "friends" within the organization. I guess he said this on a podcast that he does.
Owners are just fans with more money than God. Other owners (with winning teams) don't do anything different than what the Lions owners do other they have gotten lucky to hire the right people who made the team successful.
Owners have very little to do with the success of the team. Don't kid yourself.
This couldn't be further from the truth. And as a Lion fan that suffered through Old Man Ford for all those years you should know better. And I'm betting Redskins and Bengals fans would disagree as well. And Cowboys fans.
Post by badnews3123 on Feb 26, 2020 8:25:32 GMT -6
A really bad owner can cause issues, but overall I don’t think they have as much impact as people think. I also don’t think Martha has done anything that would make you believe she’s a bad owner.
This couldn't be further from the truth. And as a Lion fan that suffered through Old Man Ford for all those years you should know better. And I'm betting Redskins and Bengals fans would disagree as well. And Cowboys fans.
Then you don't know shit brotha.
Not sure what happened, but I mentioned Jerry Jones in my post, but now I don't see it. The gist was Jerry Jones is the only one who made the majority of his vast fortune on his NFL team, eventhough he was already rich when he bought the team but he is now in the stratophere based solely on the team. Not another single owner has his/her wealth from their football team. They were rich before they owned the team. WCF (and his family) was already uber rich before he bought the team. Snyder made his money from communication company. Mike Brown (and alot of the female owners) inherited their team and were already wealthy, so none of them made their money from their team.
It is what it is to a lot of them, just a hobby. Getting lucky with GMs and coaches has nothing to do with skill as on owner, but the ability of those in those positions. The owner just signs the checks.
A really bad owner can cause issues, but overall I don’t think they have as much impact as people think. I also don’t think Martha has done anything that would make you believe she’s a bad owner.
I will say since WCF passed, she has hired the right people to make the team not a money vacuum. Although I think that economic downturn at the end of 2000s hurt the Lions more than most team. But imagine if this team gets good, you will see fans coming out of the woodwork to start buying tickets, apparel, more social media presence, more revenue....Detroit has a finite fanbase, its not like they are getting more and more fans over the years. I wouldn't be surprised if most people who live in Detroit are noticing that younger fans are becoming fans of players versus teams.
A really bad owner can cause issues, but overall I don’t think they have as much impact as people think. I also don’t think Martha has done anything that would make you believe she’s a bad owner.
Agree it depends on the owner but the bottom line is there are owners in the NFL right now that are negatively impacting their team. And that's why I didn't mention Martha (jury's still out), but I think it's safe to say WCF was a big reason the Lions were the laughing stock of the 2000's.
I also don't think it's just "luck" when an owner hires the right personnel.